From http://www.buzzle.com/boards.asp?board=238&message=47170
March 17, 2004, 4:24 AM
My husband and I recently had converted to LDS. After being baptised, we found a couple of things we learned in the Doctrines study to be disturbing and nothing we had learned from the missionaries. So, we decided to do some investigating which I blame ourselves for not doing this before even allowing missionaries to speak with us. We had always perceived the Mormon religion as being mainstream Christian with just a few variations, which seemed believable at first. Little did we know, that what we were told was not true and that much about the true doctrine had not been given to us. These are the things that the missionaries did not tell us but that we have now confirmed is indeed their doctrines and teachings and those reading can be the judge of whether or not they think these are things that should be told BEFORE asking people if they would like to be baptised into their religion. We had actually asked them if in all of our 6 meetings, had we been told the major concepts of their religion and we were told yes. This is what we were not told:
1)That those worthy of making it to the celestial kingdom will be gods of their own planet equal to our god. Of course, it is the man who will be god and he will once again be commanded to practice polygamy. That polygamy was discontinued only to appease man's laws of this country. That the man will have many wives with whom he has many chilren with so that all of the people on his planet will be his descendants.
2) That Jesus wasn't borne of a virgin, but rather God came to earth and had sex with Mary......his spirit daughter.
3)Of past teachings of blood atonement in which sins such as murder, a woman committing adultry, and others were not forgivable by the blood of Jesus., that the sinner must shed his or her own blood in death to acheive atonement.
4) That Adam was really God (this taught by their prophet Bringham Young).
5) number 4 teaching is contridicted by a different prophet that said that the earth was created by God, Jesus, and Adam who was Michael the Arch angel.
6)That it is necessary to wear sacred underwear with special markings (masonic in nature) day and night once you have undergone the endowment ceremony. BTW, we were never told of any endowment ceremonies prior to baptism.
7)That God is a human man who with a wife had Jesus their first son, then Satan their second son.
8)that in the premortal existence, Satan had a plan for all the spirit children to be put on earth and made to be good, where Jesus had the plan to give people free wil even though it would lead to sin. That the plan of Jesus was chosen so jealous satan became evil. there was a war that broke out and 1/3 of the spirits took satan's side. These spirits were cast down to never get a body but to tempt humans to be evil.
10) that the most valiant spirits got to be white on earth, while the darker the skin color of people, the less valiant they were in fighting this war. Same for rich vs. poor, ect.
11)That one of their symbols in their pearl of great price is KOLOB, signifying a planet which is the residence of God and closest to the celestial kingdom.
12)That God was once a man who lived on a planet just as we do, who also was created by a God who was once a man who lived on a planet and so on and so on. Are these things that one should be told before they are asked to baptised into their religion? When only a small fraction of what the faith's doctrines are and even those are misrepresented and the missionaries answer you "yes" they have told you everything, does that seem like deception? What kind of real religion needs to lie and deceive to bring in new members?
I have since found out from ex-mormons that were missionaries that they are well coached on the philosophy of "milk before meat". In the thinking of this religion, non-mormons are not spirtually developed enough to handle the concepts. Once they are baptised, they can slowly learn the major differences as they are "spiritually ready". What unsuspecting people do not realize is that there are mind control, brainwashing techniques used once you are in, that keep you from realizing how crazy these beliefs are. One is slowly brainwashed. We were strong enough to pick up on things and get out. We are having our names removed.
I have nothing againt Mormon people, but their heirarchy has been corrupt and deceptive and all about secrets all the way back to Joseph Smith. I feel so bad for these people because they do not even realize that they have been controlled and brainwashed. I especially feel bad for the women. I asked two of my friends how it made them feel that their husbands will one day have many wives that they will have sex with and one answered "I was always taught not to question", the other one answered "it bothered me for a while when I was a teen-ager until I realized that men are so much smarter, stronger, and more capable than women that WHO AM I TO QUESTION SUCH THINGS".
What kind of man who truly loves his wife, wants to be married to many wives? What kind of woman who truly loves her husband is okay with the idea of living in eternity with a husband who will be screwing all the women on his own planet that he is the GOD of? Only very brainwashed people that's who.
We have since read that Joseph Smith in his diaries made three different stories about his vision.
That the 11 witnesses all eventually left his church (cult), and gave conflicting stories about their supposed witness of the gold plates. Smith answered this by calling them all liars. So we are to believe that God wanted his gospel to be restored and so he chose only liars to be the only witnesses of something this important? Not to mention, most of the witnesses were his family members.
That there has never been one archeological, linguistic, artistic, cultural, ect remnant of the civilizations that are described in the book of Mormon where in the story a famiy from the middle-east sails to Central America and builds cities all over S. America, Central Amercia, and N. America all the way to New york, and yet no remnants whatsoever that these cities ever existed. When earthquakes and wars happen, cities crumble and get buried, they don't disappear. Every other civilization known on earth (even very small ones) have left remnants of proof that they were there.
That the book is filled with metals and other items that did not exist in that land during that time. Also, things that did exist in the Americas during that time period are no where to be found in the book. The church has spent millions sending archeologists of their own faith to discover things that have never been found. The best they can do is to say that there is evidence that they used pottery, healing the sick, mourning for the dead, and worshipping the sun. I can think of no early civilization that did not do these things.
That the Pearl of Great Price, one of their 4 standard works, was supposedly translated by Smith to be the book of Abraham. It was a set of scribes that has been shown over and over again to be nothing more than Egyptian funeral rites having nothing to do with Abraham who lived 2000 years earlier than he dated the book to have been written by Abraham.
That the story of the book of mormon is extremely similar to a fiction book that was in print 2 years prior to Smith's revelation of his translation of the gold plates which is the book of Mormon. The beggining is slightly changed but otherwise the story is almost identical. He basically plagerized a book and fooled a following of people that it was his divinely inspired translation of gold plates that the vision told him to find, however plates that have never been seen because the angel took them back with him after his translation.
That none of Smith's prophecies ever came true. He gave time and place specific prophecies of which none have come true. For example that the second coming of Jesus would come in 1891. There are many, many more if one does a search.
Many people might say that there are always two sides to a story. There is a difference with this. That is that the critics of this religion are using the religions OWN documents. Doctrines and Convenants, journal of discourse, deseret news, ect, ect. Even photographs of church owned records that high level members who were able to be privy to getting but had realized the church was a fraud, so photographed to show the world.
Around 40 years after the Mormons settled in Utah, much of what was written in the Journal of discourses by the prophets was getting into the media outlets of non-mormons. There was controversy over the things that non-mormons were learning, so the leadership of the church told all of it's members to hand in their journals of disourses. There is a journal of discourses today at deseret book stores and many Mormons don't even know it has been revised in terms of major doctrinal changes. How many people if there ministers told them to turn in their bibles because they didn't want outsiders learning of their teachings wouldn't be suspicious of this?
The church has had many major changes in it's doctrine. The changing anti-black doctrine of 1978. Only after the issue was causing the church to lose a significant amount of membership did the prophet at the time have a "new revelation" that it would be permitted for blacks to hold the priesthood". The laws of adoption was changed. Mormon men used to be able to be sealed to other men to help them build up their kingdom in the afterlife. The doctrine of polygamy changed. So either a prophet is the word of God or he isn't right. They teachings shouldn't change. The execuses I have gotten are that people are not ready for some things so God works on his time schedule of when people are ready. This would be reasonable if one teaching built upon another as to continue to make a more and more clear understanding of God's plan. When a house is built, you don't put down the foundation, then the walls up, then the roof........then tear away the foundation. One of the Mormons said that it's like when you teach a kid, what you teach them at 2 is different than what you teach them at 15. Well, yes......you would tailor your explanation to the child based on their comprehension level, but the rules don't change. It's not okay to hit at 2 and it's not okay to hit at 15, for example.
The other excuse I've heard is that when the prophet speaks, he is not always speaking as a prophet, sometimes just a man, so some of his teachings could be incorrect. Well I would surely hope that the mouth of God when teaching would only say things that is what God really told him. I know I am careful about what I say in public, if I were the prophet I'd be darn sure not to teach my followers something unless I knew for sure that is was God's revelation. And if they are not sure, what does that say about their credibility? Why would God let is mouthpiece to the world say things of major importance that were false?
The kinderhook incident is only one of many things that showed Joseph Smith was a fraud. Some farmers took some plates and etches chinese letters on them and buried them. They asked Smith to look on their land to see if they had buried treasure because Smtih used to go around with a majic stick telling people he was magic and knew they had buried treasure so they would pay him to find it and he would swindle them out of money. So they hired him to find them, he made an incomplete translation of them saying they were ancient and of the pharoah. The farmers then confessed they had planted them as a hoax to show people of the town what a fraud he was.
Smith was a free-mason and it was proven in 1990 that the temple endowment was copied directly from the mason ceremony. He had said that this ceremony was a revelation and that he had put it into it's pure form. However, when a Mormon couple became convinced that their religion was false, they took a tape recorder into the temple and taped the whole endowment ceremony. This tape was compared to the masonic ceremonies of the lodge that Smith had been a master mason in, and they were almost identical with the words slightly changed. This ceremony that was divinely inspired and "pure" has been changed numerous times. The last being in 1990 when the church leadership had to admit that the ceremony was copied from the masonic rituals. In 1990 they took out the penalties for divulging secrets of the temple. One of the penalties being that the priest would have to say they would have their throat cut from ear to ear and another penalty being they would have their chest cut open and their hearts cut out.
The secrecy of this entire religion is unbelievable. Also from ex-mormons that have left, apparantly the higher up a man gets in the priesthood, he becomes privy to secrets that nobody else is. Certainly never the women members, and not just the average church goers. What kind of religion has a secret society? A religion that uses cult tactics that's what kind. These "priests" then feel so special and important. Who would want to give up this kind of eliteness? Just one of their many mind control techniques to keep people from leaving the church.
Another brainwashing technique I observed but did not pick up on right away is the constant repitition of testimony bearing. They frequently take their kids as young as 2 years old to go up and recite what the parent tells them which is that "I know the church is true, I know Joseph Smit was a true propet", ect. By the time that kid is 18, how many times have they heard that and have said that. Repetition is one of the most effective brain-washing techniques.
Another cult method the church uses is that it slowly takes over the members free time. They are given "callings" and before long all of the members social activities is taken up by the church. Once someone is that engrossed in the church, I think it must be hard to leave even if you are starting to question the doctrines. Your family, your friends, your neighbors, and all of your activities center around the church. That is hard to leave.
In my opinion, any religion that controls it's members to the point that it tells them what to wear, what to eat, what to watch, what to read, ect is too controlling. I think it's great when people make healthy choices like not to smoke or drink alcohol, but it should be done because of free-will, not because the church says so. Yes, a church should have some Moral authority, that is part of why we belong to churches. But there is a limit in how much of your personal life they should be able to control. To not be allowed to be a member because you drink tea or coffee or not be allowed to get a temple recommend because you don't want to have to wear special underwear day and night is way to extreme in my opinion. Where is the free-agency in that. And here they believe that Satan's plan was for control while the plan of Jesus was for free-agency, yet their church is all about control. I didn't used to think this until I heard people with my own ears when challenged on their churches teachings say "when the prophet speaks, the discussion is over". That is not free-agency. A huge part of free-agency is thinking for yourself, not having someone else do your thinking and never challenge it.
I also used to think that how ever they are practicing their religion, nobody is getting hurt. I don't believe that anymore. One of the things that I first noticed that put up the red flag is how much the women are always crying. They cry over the most mundane things. Things I would never dream of crying over and I am a fairly emotional person. I cry over sad movies and such. However, these women in talking about topics in church and in bearing their testimonies would cry so hard they could barely speak. At first I attributed this to feeling the spirit. However I know believe that feeling the spirit should be uplifting. I know it is uplifting to me. Sure, some of us get a tear in our eyes when talking about something we did wrong and how we've repented or something like that. But I am talking about them breaking down over talking about things that In my opinion should be uplifting. I now believe that while the mormon women put on a presentation of the perfect, happy life that deep down they must be having inner turmoil. And what woman wouldn't when she truly believes that her husband that she loves is one day going to be cheif screwer of his own planet while she gets to be one of his many wives? What I believe is that the average church members of this religion are very good hearted and caring, they have been preyed upon. Those born into the religion are brain-washed from birth. Most of the growth from the stats I saw is from birth rate and from converting people form other countries who do not have access to as much information about their religion as Americans do looking into the religion. I keep asking myself why we were so trusting of this religion and why did we not thoroughly investigate it before allowing ourselves to be decieved. I guess I am a product of being told my whole life that to be a good person, I should accept everyone and everything and especially have religious tolerance. This lead us to believe that representatives of a major religion in our country were being straight with us. I now believe that God wanted us to go through this so we could be convinced that the only teachings that have stood the test of time are those of Jesus Christ.
I can talk until I am blue in the face to my friends about these things and each answer regarding Joseph Smiths credibility is that it's all lies perpetrated against him out of persecution. The only other answer is that they feel it to be true in their hearts. That they can feel the holy ghost. Well, I feel the spirit too but I believe that God is there for all of us who pray to him. Rather we are Muslim, Jewish, Catholic, Mormon, ........whoever. God doesn't turn his back on anybody that prays to him. So of course, people of ALL faiths feel the spirit. The problem is that God also wants us to be thinking people. The Seventh Day Adventist, The Mormons (LDS), the Jehova Witness and others all claim to be the restored gospel. They all claim to be the only true church on earth. They all have their prophets. They all say they know their church is true because they feel it in their hearts. They also all have very different doctrines. Therefore, if all that was necessary is for us to feel it in our hearts, there would be one world relgion, not thousands. NO....God must want us to be thinking people to. Yes, we should be able to feel it in our hearts, but our beliefs should also be based on our objective intellectual acceptance of our religions histories, dotrines, ect.
I felt I needed to share our experience because we are both well educated and still almost sucked into a false religion that uses many brain-washing techniques over time to keep it's members fooled. I should have been aware that any religion that asks you to be baptised after only a few short talks is something to be afraid of. There is another thing I have heard an ex-mormon who was a missionary state. That they are told to tell people only a fraction of what the religion believes, and to tell them that after they are baptised is when satan will tempt them the most to believe the faith is not true. In this way when the new convert starts to discover things they were not told and is shocked and has doubts, they will atribute this to the devil. Kind of like an inoculation. Also, if the person does leave the church, this line that has been used about the devil tempting new converts will be what the members of the church will attribute to the new convert leaving. That they just weren't strong enough to resist satan.
The people of this religion really believe that God is so discriminating that a person who drinks coffee goes to a different level of heaven than someone who doesn't. A worhy Mormon who has completed temple endowments and has abided by the commandments and the words of wisdom (no coffee, tea, alcohol, drugs, or looking at those of the opposite sex in parts where the bathing suit covers) that they actually go to a better heaven than a Mormon or non-mormon who hasn't been to temple or drank coffee, tea, ect. Can anyone with a reasonable mind believe in a God as discriminating as this? I know plenty of good people who drink coffee and I don't think they are less worthy of heaven. In their minds, God plays favorite based on criteria like this and they are his favorites. UNBELIEVABLE. Most mormons will not even think about anything that will challenge what they believe.
My advice to anyone reading this........Don't answer that door when they come knocking. When they tell you they are there as a shepherd of the lord, tell them you aren't one of the sheep.
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